Curse

vader · Feb 09, 2011, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I find this site very useful for what current prices people are looking to buy/sell

http://argos.soft.free.fr/GwEstimator/

Wow. That site is awesome. I wish all those people selling Tormented items for 20e were on last night.

Definitely have to bookmark it.

OddFuture · Feb 10, 2011, 03:10 AM // 03:10

I only tell someone to offer if I don't really have an idea so then I'm not ripping myself off or if I don't care about the price. Whenever someone tells me to offer I just low/highball, depends if I'm selling or buying, just to kind of prove a point.

Wrath of m0o · Feb 10, 2011, 03:15 AM // 03:15

It's a Korean thing, and most of anet is korean. Do what i do and when they say offer..don't respond. In 2-5 min they will tell you what the want for the item.

go cubs · Feb 10, 2011, 05:10 AM // 05:10

I'm not gonna lie, I always say offer. I don't bother saying my price anymore because every time I say a price it will be under cut. I want the buyer to give a general idea of what they are willing to pay, if its near/around the fair price i will go from there. If its ridiculous, I say nty or say my ridiculous price as well.

Usually I will say offer, and if they dont respond, I either say this is the general price range Im looking for or dont even bother with them.

yum · Feb 10, 2011, 06:58 AM // 06:58

To give me a chance to make $$.

In 15 mins, 2 "offer" ppl sold me an unde eye of j for 10e and a q10 cc healing for 25k.

PS: i could've gotten the cc for 20k... and the eye for 5e but i dont like to haggle so...

Axeman002 · Feb 10, 2011, 10:28 AM // 10:28

because everyone is paranoid......when they see the word offer..they start to freak out thinking 'hmm am i gonna a look a dick when i lowball this guy?' or..'hmm do they not know its real price?'.....'has he just had it dropped from chest and has no clue to its value?'.........THATS why people dont like to see the word ofer

person selling has an idea on there price ..so if you offer close to it the haggling begins..GW selling is like an auction not a shop ..............your the buyer and u want the best price ofc but everyone in this place wants profit so if theres a chance someone 'offers' you 5-10e more than u want.......congrats.

Luminarus · Feb 10, 2011, 11:55 AM // 11:55

If im selling, i give a price that I want for it. If im buying, ill place a price im willing to pay for it unless im not sure of the market value.

However, I see someone saying WTB XYZ item, im gonna reply offer. Not because im trying to highball him, im trying to see what hes paying as to whether im willing to part with it for that price. I dont keep crap i dont use, so its an item in use on one of my characters and if its a price with which I can get a replacement easy enough, or a different skin I was looking at then ill sell. If not why waste my time.

Basically my rule is anyone placing an add for an item, buying or selling should know, and have a starting price they are willing to discuss. Non negotiables are a joke.

Quaker · Feb 10, 2011, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy's

Just to speak for myself here: I most of the time say offer because I don't care too much anymore about ingame money. Most of the times I go with what the person offers me, if its not a rediculous price, simply because I don't want to bargain for every little platinum or ecto. So I just say hell give me what you feel like giving me, and most of the time they get it for that price. So not everyone is trying to get an outrageous offer..

I tried that for a while, but I ran into too many of the types like have replied to this thread, that get into a hissey-fit and give smart-ass replies. So, these days I very seldom sell anything - it just gets merched. Or. I sell it for a low-ball price and imagine the customer thinking "I really suckered that guy" - no you didn't, you simply helped me make space in my storage.

Remember people - IT'S JUST PLAY-MONEY - you really can't take it with you.

Wolf2581 · Feb 10, 2011, 05:03 PM // 17:03

It is the same reason behind why people ask others how to spell a particular word or how to perform a certain task. They want the results without putting forth the requisite effort themselves.

go cubs · Feb 10, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf2581

It is the same reason behind why people ask others how to spell a particular word or how to perform a certain task. They want the results without putting forth the requisite effort themselves.

That really has nothing to do with it at all...

Wolf2581 · Feb 10, 2011, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

That really has nothing to do with it at all...

Sure it does, at least in my view as a trader of hundreds of items for more than five years. Yours obviously differs and that is fine.

DRGN · Feb 10, 2011, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf2581

It is the same reason behind why people ask others how to spell a particular word or how to perform a certain task. They want the results without putting forth the requisite effort themselves.

You are a fountain of wisdom.

It surely can't be because they can't get a price check on the item. It can't be because can't figure out a baseline because people sell at wildly inconsistent prices and the only places to find where they sell for, besides watching Spamadan, are out of game(and a lot of people will laugh at you if you sell for prices Guru gives) since there is no in-game mechanism like an auction house. It can't be because people won't buy at the prices they've tried. Nope, the only possible explaination is that they're lazy. And if you don't know the price of the item you're buying and can't make an offer, does that make you lazy as well?

I've had to do "offer" on some items since I can't get a price check from anyone and the most recent sale of some of them on the forums were back in 2009. There's lazy people who do "offer", but most of them have the problems I listed above. If you don't like people saying offer, here's an idea: Don't buy from them. Try that instead of going on the forums and trying to smear people because you don't know what their reasons are.

I'm sorry if that came off as abrasive, but that's a really dick way to characterize a lot of people.

Demigod Heracles · Feb 10, 2011, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I do it because I rarely pve/sell items, so if I want to sell anything I just do it that way to get it out of my inventory faster. I regularly get lowballed and sell voltaics for 50k or ectos for 2k just to get them out of my inventory, I don't care about the money.

vader · Feb 10, 2011, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demigod Heracles

I do it because I rarely pve/sell items, so if I want to sell anything I just do it that way to get it out of my inventory faster. I regularly get lowballed and sell voltaics for 50k or ectos for 2k just to get them out of my inventory, I don't care about the money.

Next time you're selling a Voltaic for 50k, PM me first.

Usually whenever someone says offer to me that's my cue to end the conversation. Usually I'll get a few more whispers from the person but then they'll give up.

If someone is selling something, they should at least have a general idea of what they want for it. I think most people are looking for offers because they are waiting for that one person to overpay for the item.

Kinda like the people spamming "WTS: Item XYZ, c/o 53e, b/o 55e". I'd bet 99 times out of 100 that 53e doesn't exist. They're just looking for someone to overpay.

go cubs · Feb 10, 2011, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf2581

Sure it does, at least in my view as a trader of hundreds of items for more than five years. Yours obviously differs and that is fine.

Its fine if you believe that but, I just dont agree I guess

I just think that is an excuse for what is actually happening. When I say offer, I am not looking for them to do the "work" for me. I want to know if they are truly interested or they actually want to buy the item without ripping me off.

I am sure that most people that use this term will agree that they do not have any intention of the buyer doing the "work" for them

Dzjudz · Feb 10, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by vader

kinda like the people spamming "wts: Item xyz, c/o 53e, b/o 55e". I'd bet 99 times out of 100 that 53e doesn't exist. They're just looking for someone to overpay.

qft. C/o = bs.

go cubs · Feb 10, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

qft. C/o = bs.

Yeah, 99% of the time...I have done it before where I actually have real offers but its pointless, no one pays attention to the c/o anyway

Urcscumug · Feb 11, 2011, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehnahvah Gahro

And I agree that GW has a terrible trading system, in fact it doesn't exist. Most of my playtime is occupied by trying to get rid of things for a reasonable price.

The problem is that "reasonable price" means "I heard elsewhere that I could get more for this so I will hold out waiting for something close to that". And that "heard elsewhere" is mostly based on offers and hearsay, not actual concluded transactions.

Say I'm a noob and sell a black dye for 2k. It's more money than I ever saw before and I'm extatic. I get myself some crafter armor that's 5 times better than what I got in Pre, I'm happy, I move on with the game. What's the problem? The principle of the thing? Coulda woulda shoulda?

Successful trading means all parties are happy with what they got. An arbitrary, external, abstract "reference price" has nothing to do with that.

IMHO an official marketplace interface is a solution looking for a problem. It would solve some non-issues and permanently cripple the in-game economy.

Allow me to explain. Let's see what these non-issues are.

How do you reliably determine item price with only scarcity as the deciding factor?

Answer: you don't.

Well you can, sort of. ANet could make the game follow all concluded transactions and publish averages depending on what gets traded. I believe that's what the trader NPCs use.

But it would be limited to exchanges for cash, so you wouldn't be able to use arbitrary items as alternative currency.

This is also error prone. There's no telling when a trade is an actual "market" trade or just a swap between friends. That's where flagging a trade as "market" comes in and the only reason for a "formal" marketing system. But it can very well be a checkbox in the trade window. Do not necessarily expect a formal interface.

It's an awkward "solution" that doesn't do anything better than what people manage today just talking and sharing price checks and going prices.

How do you streamline the buy/sell operations?

I think that people who wish for this mean a way to avoid going to a certain outpost, writing an ad, spamming it every once in a while, haggling with people, dealing with whiners, scammers and infants, until you finally complete the trade.

They probably wish to open a window, drag their item to it (or search for an item they want), put up a fixed price and be told when the exchange item or money is in their inventory. Fire and forget.

That sure is streamlined... it's also about 100 times less flexible; and absolutely no fun.

I guess it depends on the culture you come from. Some people are used mainly to shops with set prices where you either pay what is asked or GTFO. But most of the RL in my experience is not like that. There's haggling, shortchanging, people following you saying "buy my stuff" or "enter my restaurant". Most business transactions involve making a pitch, negotiating, knowing the market, spotting good vs bad deals, scammers etc.

So, bottom line...

I'm loving the system as it is now. Humans themselves are the most versatile interface of all; give them a simple item exchange window and a communication channel and they can do anything. The current system is simple and flexible, bordering on perfection as per Saint-Exupery's definition. It can do "my fixed price or GTFO" as well as anything else.

I really, really hope ANet keeps it as it is. I don't want it replaced by a cold artificial board that just takes items through one end and craps cash through the other.

Besides, what will you do if you don't like the prices the board sets? Do you always respect what the Dye Trader says Blacks are worth? You'll resort to the good old swap and talking, that's what. Except you won't have the trade window anymore, with its built-in safeguards, so you will be easily scammed. And when you report it you'll be told "sorry, you should have used the official marketplace".

Disclaimer: I like haggling if it's smart and friendly. I like taking the price up or down. I like throwing in a joke. I like adding other items if one of us doesn't have enough cash or specifically what was asked for, to even things up. I like throwing in a Red Iris for free in Pre, just because it's a nice gesture.

You can get anything you need in the game just by playing the game. You don't NEED to trade. If you do, it should at least be fun, not click click done, IMHO.

ruk1a · Feb 12, 2011, 02:23 AM // 02:23

dare i say, this whole thread is mad.
some people simply don't know the going price of items and are unaware of websites like this, i used to ask for offers when i was a noob too just to get the gist of prices.

StormX · Feb 12, 2011, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I dont see how standing around for half an hour spamming WTB WTS can be remotely fun. For every person that enjoys bargaining there are a dozen others who do not, and as a result tons of perfectly useable items are going down the crapper or languishing in storage. These days if I have something I dont need I just go to spamadan and say "first person to open trade with me gets free XYZ" and instantly all the trade windows pop up. Even runescape has a better trade system which is pathetic